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Divine and evil

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:42 pm
by Vajra
Dear Hari
From ancient wisdom we know that this world is the world of duality/
There are evil (negative, egoistic)forces (entities)and divine ones Gods/
Evil ones called demons and they tried to exploit everything on there own benefit
let say nature and people, and divine ones -Gods taking care for the harmonious development of
all creatures and taking care of all the harmony in nature/
Many years i got information from certain sourses
about the head of that divine forces Lord Indra ( king of Gods)
But somehow or other some information which was gotten is mostly presented Lord Indra in negative
way ,and the image from that information of Lord Indra is not at all goodlooking for most of the common people(not for me),but Lord Indra beeing the king of the Gods definitely doing so many incredible activates on behalf of humans and all the creation and He is definitely worthy to be really appreciated and praised for his heroic divine activates for maintaining divinity in the creation, from my point of view much more then most of so called civilian and spiritual authorities in human society.
Although in vedas i mean in rIg veda and others it is alsoso many praising himns to lord Indra
And by the way He is greatest devotee of Lord Vishnu as i know.But the main Image goten from information is not at all the best.
(It seem that since the whole humanity practically everywere felt under the increadible strong influence of demons because of Kali yuga factor,
so all the information about lord Indra was twested in all old scriptures in nagative way not even in India but in Grees also,since he is the main enemy for evil forsec/(this is just my speculation))

So can you say about Lord Indra (king of gods) from your experience wath special activites he is doing and how looks his kingdom and He himself.

I dont know maybe my question sound strange but it is realy question that i have.

Re: Divine and evil

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:40 pm
by Hari
Good and Evil are axiomatic in the universe. When creation takes place, the elements to manage it appear. Every endeavor requires a leader. Brahma is an architectural engineer, not a manager. Managers are required to make sure things go the way they should. Forces that tend to break apart order have to be positively redirected or dissolved. The celestial region is not a democracy. It is a kingdom and everyone there accepts this. A King is required.

The problem with being a King was nicely summed up by Abraham Lincoln. "You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time." Indra has the same problem. He engages wholeheartedly in his task and usually does it quite well. The celestial realm is orderly, peaceful most of the time, and just as it should be. Indra works hard and has a lot on his mind. His job is stressful. He deals with it in his own royal manner. Sometimes this gets him in trouble. Someone might not like what he does and chastises him. Such is life.

No one in the universe can do a better job of being the King of Heaven than Indra. Despite whatever was said about him, he is the best at what he does and without him there would be chaos. When you are at the top of the heap, every hiccup or sneeze is big news! Everyone is focused on you. This can be very irritating and uncomfortable. Sometimes you have to do things that you do not want to do for the sake of your subjects. Sometimes you are manipulated by those around you because you are avoiding to act in a lose-lose situation. Indra does what he has to do according to the role he has been given despite it being an occasional can of worms.

He is an easy target. When you want to teach your kids what not to do, you point at this larger than life figure and say, "Look at this one. He was SO lusty that he was cursed." Or, "Just to keep his power he had to do these terrible things to his friends!" And so on. If you were in the same situation, you would have done far worse, but that does not matter because a critic only has to say something, not do something better. No one can do better. This is an unequivocal fact. Indra is the best. And he needs encouragement. Who would do such a tough job without encouragement? What better encouragement can the denizens of heaven give than telling him, "You da man!" in common parlance, or "You are the greatest of the great, the best of the best, and we bow before you as you keep us safe, manage our prosperity, and maintain peace." Nothing wrong with this.

I cannot say what conversations he has with his wife at night while laying in bed lamenting about his day as I am not privvy to such information. I also do not want to be. This is his problem, not mine. The boss is the boss because he can be the boss. I do what the boss says because I am not the boss, I do not want to be the boss, and I am fine with me as I am. If the boss gets more perks than me, that's ok! I do not need these perks because the price to get them is far too great.

We have experience that devotees love to criticize others. We have seen they really love to criticize those in power. We also see that when they are in power they are no better than those they replaced. And thus the natural condition of humans in this world is revealed.

Those who are evil are quite straightforward about it. "Indra is in charge and we want to be in charge. So we will kill him and take over." They do not bother with criticizing his morality. Those who are supposedly good have a different slant when they need to. They bring up morality, decency, ethics and so on, as weapons against their King. Sometimes they have a good reason and sometimes not. Regardless, he remains king because no one else can replace him, and if someone were to replace him, they would do a worse job!

My advice is: Get off his case! Worry about yourself.

Re: Divine and evil

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:53 pm
by Vajra
Thank you very much for such a wonderful answer.
I always was thinking that Lord Indra is worthy for real deep thanks for all that he is doing all over universe/
In old times people was much more advanced in the cutler also that is why it was recommended to all wise humans to
warship Lord Indra ,Agni,Varuna,Vayu,and other Gods who are doing incredible work in the universe/
The householders, and not only them, for showing there love and recognition of Gods regularly was making oblations to them
and festivals for them,not only for Suprim/
Shouldnt we also somehow do that for real harmony in the world and in our hearths?

Re: Divine and evil

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:17 pm
by Hari
I think the main problem comes from the usage of the word "worship." If a person worships the Supreme, they might feel it to be cheating on God to worship someone who is not Supreme. Of course, they will worship earth people who they consider linked to the Supreme because they are representatives of the Supreme. Why they do not consider devas to be linked representatives of the Supreme is beyond me, but many uncultured persons think in this way.

Despite this misconception, the devas are the governers of the Universe. All government takes taxes from its people. So one can consider offerings to the Devas as taxes. Or one can offer them something out of gratitude for what they offer us. Calling this offering of tribute as "worship" is a misnomer. One should offer to the devas as a reciprocation for what they give us.

When one is no longer taking without paying, one ceases to be a thief. If one takes from the devas without giving anything in return, one is a crook and responsible for the consequences. If you want peace and harmony in your life, follow the guidelines given by those who are more powerful than you and avoid coming in conflict with the authorities. This is what Krsna meant in the Gita.